Saturday, July 12, 2008

Babalú's Deletes All Comments on "The New Cuban Flag"

Everything else can be fought except human nature; that is immutable. Therefore, it was not even in question whether Val would allow a free debate to proceed at Babalú concerning George Moneo's reproduction of Eduardo Sarmiento's offensive cacicature of the Cuban flag. Everybody who participated in that discussion knew that at some point it would be abruptly interrupted and censored. Well, it never was a free discussion to begin with, since only a fraction of the comments submitted were actually published; but skewered as it was in their favor, their vigilance could not be 24/7, so it was inevitable that a critical comment or two would penetrate their cordon sanitaire in the wee hours of the morning. It would have been too conspicuous to delete just those comments; they have done that, of course, in the past, with utter shamelessness, but the controversy regarding Babalú's desecration of the Cuban flag had shone the spotlight on it and made such selective censorship too risky a proposition. So Val decided, instead, to delete the entire thread and close discussion on "The New Cuban Flag," which, ironically, has been accorded more respect than the old at Babalú. The only thing that Val did not eliminate, however, was the Sarmiento's desecration of the Cuban flag.

Given Val's abundant love for his adopted country, which truly knows no bounds and encompasses even support for the "Wet Foot/Dry Foot" policy, it is inconceivable that he would treat the U.S. flag in the same manner that the Cuban flag has been treated at Babalú. This is part of the "American-Cuban" mentality that pervades Babalú and colors all its thinking on Cuba and especially its treatment of Cubans on the island and newcomers from Cuba, who, of late, have become both the enemy within and the enemy without rather than Castro and his henchmen. The only exception which Val makes is for individual political prisoners. The rest of the Cuban people he regards as collaborators of the regime who can only redeem themselves by shedding rivers of blood or by submitting to be rendered in a pressure cooker (Val's similes, not mine).

When so little concern is shown for Cubans as human beings should we expect Babalú to respect the symbols of the Cuban nation? Of course not. Its desecration of the Cuban flag is in keeping with its devaluing of all things Cuban, not least Cuban lives.

The RCAB, from its inception, has provided a refuge for both Babalú's deleted comments and its banned commenters. So here, for the record, incomplete and altered as it has been, is the deleted thread from Moneo's post "The New Cuban Flag:"


July 09, 2008
The new Cuban flag

(H/T Gabriel D.)
Posted by George Moneo at July 9, 2008 02:59 PM


Comments

Sad, but dead on!
Posted by: jluix at July 9, 2008 04:05 PM

Hay una polémica en el tapete: Resulta que en Babalú aparecía una imagen de la bandera cubana modificada en alusión al Exodo y "Review of Cuban Blogs" publica un post indignado.
Si bien es cierto que yo no utilisaría la bandera en esa forma para ilustrar ninguna idea por justa que fuera, creo que la intención de Moneo obviamente no fue ofender a la bandera ni a los cubanos. Para mi no pasa de ser irreverencia.

Tomado de "Blogs sobre Cuba": (http://blogssobrecuba.blogspot.com)
Posted by: Al Godar at July 9, 2008 09:57 PM

Al, I am leaving this comment solely as a clarification so that all the screeching voices can shut up: the image was given to me by a recent Cuban exile who thought it was the perfect metaphor for the situation in Cuba: 'even the star is taking to the sea to leave Cuba.'

An image that needs an explanation has not done its job. This one, however, should be self-explanatory. Maybe all of the "outrage" directed at this -- an image that captures the reality of Cuba today -- can be redirected to the Obama campaign lady who had che superimposed on the Cuban flag. The nattering negativists didn't raise one little objection to that. And to me, che's picture on the flag is a desecration. My two cents.
Posted by: George L. Moneo at July 9, 2008 10:33 PM

I think the design is inspired.
Posted by: Paco at July 9, 2008 10:44 PM

I laughed out loud. It's perfect.
Posted by: Zhangliqun at July 10, 2008 01:10 AM

George, perhaps you did not have any derogatory intention when you posted this desecration of my Cuba's National Flag. No one is perfect, all of us humans err at one time or another. I urge you to do the right thing, take the correct action(s) and prevent further potential damage to your reputation and that of Babalu Blog, I'd suggest that you take down the graphic, apologize with utmost sincerity and prepare yourself for what may come your way. I do not always agree with you, I detest your propensity to the profane, but you are an educated man with many principles with which I agree. I reiterate, I do not believe that you had any negative intentions in mind or heart, nevertheless, please take it down. Thanks.
Posted by: Angel Garzón at July 10, 2008 01:45 AM

My intent when I posted the image was -- and is -- as clear as gin: the image is a metaphor for the condition Cuba is in today. Period. This is nothing more than a cheap and manipulative attempt to drum up hysteria and controversy where none exists. If you or your friends are too obtuse to get the message, so be it. The image stays and my message now is the same as was when I posted it.

Angel, we live in America. I still have the right to post this, just as much as you have the right to disagree with me posting it. You have a lot of crust to think you can come here and tell me what to write or post, demanding an apology for some manufactured offense. Our blog has a variety of opinions, some more pointed than others, but we consistently, unambiguously and unashamedly disseminate a pro-America, anti-castro, anti-communist message here. If that message, or how we deliver it, bothers you that much, go elsewhere. I certainly won't shed any tears.
Posted by: George L. Moneo at July 10, 2008 07:15 AM

People actually complained about the flag... Dumb asses I tell ya, all of them... Where were these asses when the puta in Texas had Che on the Cuban flag?
Posted by: readytoshoot at July 10, 2008 08:54 AM

I immediately grasped the message of the flag and thought it was GREAT! But then again, I'm not one of those "ban the flag burners" kind of people I guess :)

Sorry Al, but you sound a little bit nuts to me. This can in no way be seen as desecration of the cuban flag. It SHOULD be the national flag of communist cuba though.
Posted by: Cangrejero de Caibarién at July 10, 2008 09:49 AM

MI BANDERA

Al volver de distante ribera,
con el alma enlutada, y sombria
afanoso busque mi bandera
Y otra he visto ademas de la mia!

Donde esta mi bandera cubana.
La bandera mas bella que existe?
Desde el buque la vi esta mañana,
y no he visto una cosa más triste!...

Con la fe de las almas austeras
hoy sostengo con honda energia
que no deben flotar dos banderas
donde basta con una: La mía!

En los campos que hoy son un osario
vio a los bravos batiéndose juntos,
y ella ha sido el honroso sudario
de los pobres guerreros difuntos.

Orgullosa lucio en la pelea,
sin pueril y romántico alarde:
Al cubano que en ella no crea
se le debe azotar por cobarde!

En el fondo de obscuras prisiones
no escucho ni la queja mas leve,
y sus huellas en otras regiones
son letreros de luz en la nieve...

No la veis? Mi bandera es aquella
que no ha sido jamás mercenaria,
y en la cual resplandece una estrella
con más luz, cuanto más solitaria.

Del destierro en el alma la traje
entre tantos recuerdos dispersos
y he sabido rendirle homenaje
al hacerla flotar en mis versos.

Aunque lánguida y triste tremola,
mi ambición es que el sol con su lumbre
la ilumine a ella sola - A ella sola! -
en el llano, en el mar y en la cumbre.

Si deshecha en menudos pedazos
llega a ser mi bandera algun día...
Nuestros muertos alzando los brazos
la sabran defender todaví­a...

Bonifacio Byrnes
Posted by: Vic at July 10, 2008 11:14 AM

Gracias, Vic. I hadnt read that in a long time.

I think it's important to note that no one is calling for a new cuban flag nor that tis be it. This is an artist's statement of what can only be called the reality of Cuba.
Posted by: Val Prieto at July 10, 2008 03:34 PM

An additional part of that reality is that if Cubans are stopped on the open seas, they get sent back to Cuba — thanks to wet-foot, dry-foot, America's contribution to the continuing torture of the Cuban people.

How American of us. Maybe we can add barbed wire to the Stars and Stripes to reflect that reality.
Posted by: Marc R. Masferrer at July 10, 2008 03:45 PM

My intent when I posted the image was -- and is -- as clear as gin: the image is a metaphor for the condition Cuba is in today. Period.

I was and I am very well aware of the metaphorical nature of the graphic and what it purportedly represents. You must be aware that there are many subjects, not the least of which is national pride and its representation by national symbols, that are considered "off limits" or beyond the realm of the common, certainly you are aware that even a small flag represents a nation and its people, you must know that any violation(s) or desecration(s) of such symbol(s) in any way, shape or form may and have caused nations to declare wars against one another, it is due to these reasons that national flags are only desecrated when provocation for war is the intention of the perpetrators, or when disdain and hatred of the nation and the people that a national flag represents is at the heart of the insulting violators. You get offended every time you see any representation of Che Guevara, yet the desecration of the national symbol of Cuba and its people does not seem to bother you in the least. Certainly there are many other alternatives that could have been employed to convey the message that you purport to have tried to convey It is common practice to place a disclaimer within any given presentation, whichever its nature, to clarify the intention(s) of the author(s) for anyone who may possibly take offense at whatever such presentation is intended to represent, but such escape clause is not customarily applied to national flags.

This is nothing more than a cheap and manipulative attempt to drum up hysteria and controversy where none exists. If you or your friends are too obtuse to get the message, so be it. The image stays and my message now is the same as was when I posted it.

There is no manipulation whatsoever at the heart of this issue, there is however, a serious affront to the national symbol of my native Cuba and to all Cubans, whether in Cuba, or anywhere else in the world. You seem to prefer to use contemptuous innuendo to attack me for having warned you as to the potentially negative consequences of your act of desecration, so be it, shoot the messenger and by all means, do not take the time to understand the message. Tthat appears to be more the norm than the exception with you. Your own words prove you guilty of your crime, you refuse to do what you should do for the good of the cause of democracy in Cuba, you choose to give the tyranny in power in Cuba another propaganda tool to use against all freedom loving Cubans and our friends and allies throughout the world, you choose to insult all Cubans whom you apparently believe are beneath you, especially our brothers and sisters within the island prison who suffer daily at the hands of the tyranny and most if not all of the recent arrivals, you coincidentally allege that it is one of those recently arrived Cubans who is the original author of the graphic, I doubt the veracity of such allegation, but there is a clear pattern of superiority complex to your statements, the members of the tyranny in Cuba suffer from the same affliction. You sir are an affront to Cuba and to all of us Cubans, you sir are a shameful example of what takes place when people allow bad influences from unpatriotic citizens of another nation to permeate their once proud national identity, you sir have been negatively influenced by those who posses no compunction whatsoever about using their own flag for underwear, placing a national symbol in the nether regions of their human anatomy. You sir, should immediately cease and desist from insulting the nation, the symbols, the nationals, the expatriates and anything and everything that represents our beloved Cuba.

Angel, we live in America. I still have the right to post this, just as much as you have the right to disagree with me posting it. You have a lot of crust to think you can come here and tell me what to write or post, demanding an apology for some manufactured offense. Our blog has a variety of opinions, some more pointed than others, but we consistently, unambiguously and unashamedly disseminate a pro-America, anti-castro, anti-communist message here. If that message, or how we deliver it, bothers you that much, go elsewhere. I certainly won't shed any tears.

No George, we live in the United States of America, from the furthest, northernmost reaches of Canada's territory to the furthermost reaches of Chile's and Argentina's territories and all other nations of America in between, we live in America, all of those nations citizens and residents live in America George, not the Illusion that you call America, another bad influence that you have assimilated from misinformed and misguided citizens of the U.S.A. You DO NOT have the right to desecrate the national symbol of Cuba and the Cubans it represents, living and dead. I did not tell you what you have the right to write or post, or what you do not have the right to write or post, I advised you as to the potentially damaging consequences of your act of desecration would be for your personal reputation, as well as, for the reputation of Babalu Blog, certainly you must be aware that there are consequences to our actions and words, freedom of speech allows any idiot to falsely yell "fire" at a theatre but with consequences for the perpetrator. You seem to lack or not want to avail yourself of logic, common sense and linear thought process. Your Blog (your own words, I was under the impression that it was Valentin Prieto's Blog) used to have a variety of opinions, mostly from commentators, most of whom have been banished and banned from commenting in the most outrageous displays of profanity laden derogatory disrespect and affront to all modicums of civility, so much for believing in the democratic and civil process. What you claim to be the core of the message that Babalu purports to disseminate, curiously does not indicate pro-Cuba and/or pro-Cuban, I guess all the claims to supporting and advocating for the cause of a free, democratic and civil Cuban republic, as well as, the claims of support for the Cuban people are not included, or perhaps your impression of what makes a true Cuban is nothing but a reflection of what you see every time you look in the mirror, if that is the case, I will unequivocally state that I want no part or parcel of that image that purportedly would represent what you apparently believe makes a real or ideal Cuban, I prefer to stay as I am, a true Cuban among the multitudes of Cubans, with all of our different characteristics that serve all of us so well to enrich our culture and civil pride. To finalize my statement, I would like to offer you this tip, when you offer others with whom you disagree to go elsewhere, you are too late already, the echo chamber that Babalu has become speaks for itself. Enough said.
Posted by: Angel Garzón at July 10, 2008 05:22 PM

***

When Val deleted this entire thread, he offered the following explanation, which, like all justifications of censorship, explains nothing but his own censorious mindset:

Update (Val): I have unpublished the comments related to this post. I simply will not allow such shallow, petty and disingenuously feigned insult bs commentary to go on here unchecked. The image above is an artist's statement on what he or she perceives to be the reality of today's Cuba and that's that. There is no desecration going on, no calls for a new Cuban flag, no intended or implied insult to the national symbol.

If you feel insulted by the image above, then you should, as it speaks volumes as to the truth about Cuba. Moreover, what should truly insult those of us that love Cuba and her symbolic flag is to see the likes of communists, socialists and fidelistas like the castros and their supporters waving her around for almost fifty years, shielding their idealistic ugliness behind her beauty.

470 comments:

1 – 200 of 470   Newer›   Newest»
Anonymous said...

Mr. tellechea, I was not aware that the artist was Sarmiento. Will you be lashing out at him as well? It seems to me that the attention paid to the messenger is out of proportion to what the original artist did. Maybe you should dedicate a post to him so that everyone undertsands the nature of this vile crime. -new fan from LA

Manuel A.Tellechea said...

anonymous:

I have "lashed out" against the desecration of the Cuban flag. The "messenger," as you put it, didn't even bother to credit the author of the desecration it reproduced and endorsed.

What I know about Sarmiento Portera I have noted in the previous thread.

As RCAB is a review of blogs and not a review of art, Sarmiento falls outside its purview.

But, for the record, implicit in my condemnation of the "art" is my condemnation of the artist.

Anonymous said...

i understand now. if it were about the desecration of our flag you'd be be writing a whole post on the artist, but it's not. it's all about babalu. you could care less about the flag. very, very disappointng.

Manuel A.Tellechea said...

anonymous:

You clearly don't understand, but, then again, you never have, "new fan from L.A."

Squeeze this fact into your sophistry: the artist had nothing directly to do with Babalú's desecration of the Cuban flag. In fact, his work was used without even crediting him. I revealed his identity precisely so he could be held accountable.

As for you, "new fan from LA," you have been a disappointment to me for a long, long time.

Anonymous said...

Unpublish infers never published. This was ERASED. Very Fidel Castro of you Val.

serafin el carnicero said...

All comments deleted. El que mas mea hablo'. Communism is Alive & Well en la Replubica de Babalu

Anonymous said...

L. Ron Valentin y sus idiotas hicieron un acto de repudio ayer en este blog. Igual que en Cuba, hacerlo todo un choteo y borrar todo lo que no les conviene.

Anonymous said...

Si el futuro de Cuba es Prieto y Moneo me quedo con lo que hay. Misma mierda.

Tellechea estas bien claro.

Anonymous said...

The second anonymous commenter was right. You could care less about the flag. You slam someone for doing something and then you don't slam another for doing the same thing! You'll do anything to get your one hateful message across. I guess life in that rent control tenement has finally made you realize what a pathetic loser you really are. You're the judge, jury and executioner on all matters Cuba. All hail Mondongo, leader of FART!

serafin el carnicero said...

Val said: "I simply will not allow such shallow, petty and disingenuously feigned insult bs commentary to go on here unchecked."

Hey Val, Are you reffering to George's comments ?

and

What commentary goes "unchecked" in YOUR blog ?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous at 12:38, let's see if I understand you. deleting comments at babalu is censorship, but when the babalu people leave comments here that are unfavorable its an act of repudio. Do i have that straight?

Anonymous said...

anon: 1:33pm

say what ????

Manuel A.Tellechea said...

anonymous @ 12:46:

The only "hateful message" here is whatever you and the other Babalunians bring here. Your desecration of the Cuban flag and obstinate refusal to recognize your error, indeed, your repeated affirmations of it, show that you regard it as no better than a rag to be sullied with your hate and contempt for the Cuban people.

It is virtually impossible for you to write even a single sentence now that is not imbued with that same hate and contempt.

You and you alone know the extent of the repudiation to which you have been subjected for the last few days. Your desecration of the flag requires no explication: it is evident and accessible to everybody and condenses in one graphic image your real feelings about Cuba and the Cuban people.

Anonymous said...

Do you intend to write 20 articles about Babalu's desecration of the Cuban flag like you did about Val's outing of Killcastro?

Another Manuel sitemeter outing said...

You clearly don't understand, but, then again, you never have, "new fan from L.A."

Why la chivateria de site meter MAt, Why? Are you a CDR, who cares if the person is in LA or en la LUNA

Manuel A.Tellechea said...

20 posts?

No. Thirty.

oveja negra said...

Do you intend to write 20 articles about Babalu's desecration of the Cuban flag like you did about Val's outing of Killcastro?

Es verdad Manuel, piensas escribir 20 articulos de la bandera. Yo pensaba que este issue estaba muriendo pero no, veo que esta alive and well , inclusive other cuban Bloggers have placed the desecrated flag in their blogs, this is big Manuel, We should go international with this. Expose the real infiltrados Manuel, go ahead

Manuel A.Tellechea said...

fantomas:

You really should try reading the comments before responding to them.

The commenter identified himself as "a new fan from LA."

As for you, I don't have to check the Sitemeter to distinguish your inanities. Your comments have your "DNA" all over them.

Anonymous said...

Manuel, do you dream about Fantomas everyday?

Anonymous said...

up late today fantomas ?
another wild night walking the streets of San Juan.

go work on your "blog" and stop wasting our time

I'm not fantomas said...

Manuel you have clearly lost this battle. Both the flag and Moneo stayed @ Babalu

Anonymous said...

Val did not have the balls to remove the flag.

Afraid of the poodle Val ?

Anonymous said...

Many, how many monikers can a " normal" person have on a blog?

Anonymous said...

up late today fantomas ?
another wild night walking the streets of San Juan.

go work on your "blog" and stop wasting our time

It seems Fantomas suffered a cyber attack. Hi blog was down yesterday and now he only has a few posts

I like his new video Baby Babalu, sweet

el chinito investigador said...

Primero fue la bandera , ahora Moneo la coge con los perros y con los Burros de Pekin

Que clase de animal, dios mio amparalo

vocero de las FART said...

Proximo boletin de las FART desde la selva

Coming soon!!

Anonymous said...

I love the site meter option on my blog

Mamey said...

Cuban literary anthologies printed during the Castro regime omit artists who left the island. The same has been done with musical artists. Similarly, rebels who later turned on the Castro brothers are 'erased' from photos which appear in museums and history books--and this before digital wizardry. To 'unpublish' something may not be as serious, but the action is certainly suspect and reeks of communist revisionism. Fo, fo, fo, que peste! (apologies to Alexis and the girls).

Anonymous said...

Two things that you can't do are unpublish something or unpop a cherry.

Anonymous said...

unpublish is like unlieing or being a little pregnant

anonymo 1:33 -it may or may not be an act of repudio that's your opinion but the bottom line is it was not "unpublished"

Anonymous said...

babalu: comments: 20 dissenting

comments: 0 -unpublished

RCAB -freedom of speech - PRICELESS

Anonymous said...

"Primero fue la bandera , ahora Moneo la coge con los perros y con los Burros de Pekin"

el perrito sato de moneo esta defendiendo a sus familiares

Mastercard said...

babalu: comments: 20 dissenting

comments: 0 -unpublished

RCAB -freedom of speech - PRICELESS

Segunda esposa de Moneo said...

quote of the Week

"Moneo debio ser unpublished antes de nacer"

Donde esta el poeta? said...

y el poeta de la Republica de hialeah

No compone acerca de la bandera

Anonymous said...

"Moneo debio ser unpublished antes de nacer"

lol


Moneo was an accident, a mistake, an editorial nightmare.

quinta esposa de moneo said...

"Moneo debio ser unpublished antes de nacer"

lol


Moneo was an accident, a mistake, an editorial nightmare.

Todavia me debe unos muebles
y una cafetera italiana

Anonymous said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CylXqXHj8HQ

Manuel te toca ahora decir algo en un comentario o en un post acerca del video nuevo de Marco Rubio. Ya Henry lo esta impulsando para una alta posicion dentro del Partido Republicano. Tal parece que Babalu ha visto en Rubio su ultima carta de defensa. Podra Rubio salvar al intransigente grupito del exilio historico que queda en Miami y pronto sera minoria por causas naturales

Discuss

Vana said...

Sorry folks was so sick yesterday I couldn't even lift my head, but I'm back.

So they errased all comments, but left the flag anyway, bunch of cowards, they want to pretend they don't yield to pressure, but you know they are upset at this controversy, well we knew sooner or later thae comments would be gone, that's Babalu's anthem.

CUBAWATCHER said...

"show that you regard it as no better than a rag to be sullied with your hate and contempt for the Cuban people."

Did you just use the term "hate and contempt for the Cuban people" to describe the writers at Babalu?

Manuel - don't EVER say anything like that again. Have I made myself perfectly clear?

You have every right to criticize the opinions or postings of others - every right in the world. But I will not allow anyone to EVER tell me that I have hate and contempt for my beloved family.

Have you got that clear?

Regards,

Anatasio.

Manuel A.Tellechea said...

anatasio:

Babalú is a blog that hates Cubans on the island because of their reluctance to shed rivers of blood when prompted. The only Cubans it doesn't hate are political prisoners because they are already doing their share of the suffering. Its obsession with imploding Cubans in pressure cookers and bleeding them as if that were the cure for what ailed them makes it difficult to contend that Babalú is without contempt for our countrymen.

The question that you must ask yourself is whether your first loyalty is to Cuba or to Babalú.

Let me know what you decide.

Vana said...

Good answer Manuel, for his sake I hope he choses Cuba.

serafin el carnicero said...

where u been anastasio ? Have you ever read Babalu ?

Yes, the term "hate and contempt for the Cuban people" describes the writers at Babalu.

Anonymous said...

Vana, you missed a little brown mark on your lower lip. There you go. Good you got it.

Vana said...

Anon 934

So you claim, but you better clean your nose is totally brown.

Anonymous said...

Uy uy que miedo. The Babalusians always so brave behind their keyboards.

Vana said...

Yes anon 9:55 they love to visit here incognito, the cowards refuse to use their names when they insult me, guess they don't want to seem petty insulting a woman, but they are that and much more.

Angel Garzón said...

Vana said...

"Sorry folks was so sick yesterday I couldn't even lift my head, but I'm back..."

I'm glad you're back in good health Vana, welcome back.

Manuel, in reference to your response to Anatasio, I must disagree with you on certain particulars, I know from reading the contributors articles at Babalu, that there are a number of them that do not fall under the pressure cooker category supporters, if you analyze not just their posts but specifically some of their comments, you'd be able to discern a subtle but nevertheless present dissent from the norm of those in command, I will not mention names here, but suffice it to say that I have been able to follow a consistent pattern of this behavior, I will not categorize it as fearful, but it is definitely very cautious and non-confrontational, as to the reason(s) for its subtlety, I can only guess, but only they know the real reason(s) for this approach. You are very adept to finding details, you must have witnessed it.

Vana said...

Angel:

Thank you you are most kind.

Pero recuerda en Babalu, es lo mismo el que mata la vaca como el que le aguanta la pata.

Anonymous said...

well.. it's like I knew!

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