What is the proof that the U.S. health system is the best in the world? Well, every objective judge says so and all the world's people firmly believe it. But what do the experts or the "little people" know? What matters to Moore are the world's multimillionaires and billionaires, men like himself, who can afford the best and don't deny themselves anything. The heads of corporations, the Eastern potentates, the sultans of Araby, the moguls of Hollywood and, of course, Michael Moore himself, where do they go when they need medical assistance? They don't go to Europe and they certainly don't go to Cuba. After Castro's ten failed operations, I don't even think guerrilla leaders go there for treatment anymore. Even in oil-states that have built the most sophisticated hospitals in the world, equipped with the latest innovations and staffed by foreign physicians, their monarchs, when their lives hang in the balance, trust their own hospitals as much as they trust the local shamen, which is to say they don't trust them at all: when the cards are down they will only confide their lives to Jewish doctors in New York hospitals. Case closed.
Now, as for Michael Moore's take on Castroite medicine, it should suffice to say that Castro's longtime cardiologist lives in New Jersey and that it was a doctor from Spain who managed to save whatever was left to save of Fidel after his Cuban physicians got through with him. Case closed there, too.
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28 comments:
He should go to Cuba and live on a Cuban diet, he will return to the USA very svelte.
Friends
What good is it to have the best health care system in the world, when only a few can afford it.
I dont' know about you all, but the characeters in this movie are real to me ie: the middle-aged couple forced to live in the basement of their daughter's home in order to pay for health care coverage, the guys who cuts off two fingers with an electric saw, and is forced to choose which of the two he wants reattached, because he can only afford to pay for one. (Who knew the ring finger was more expensive than the middle one?)
You are missing the point of the movie if you see it as an endorsement the cuban healthcare system. I see it as provacation to discuss what' going on in Our American society
Corgiguy:
Moore's documentary is an anecdotal history, true (perhaps) as regards individual cases but not a true representation of the health care system as a whole.
It is an eminently American characteristic to be dissatisfied with the best even when they have the best.
Manuel
Our health care system is the envy of many in the world. We have the best doctors, nurses and other caregivers, and we have access to the most advanced technologies and pharmaceuticals. But too many families cannot afford to access that system, and too many more struggle to provide even a basic level of health coverage to their families or employees. That's what the movie is about taling about.
Also you say is an american charecteristic to be dissastified. I say we are fortunate that we live in a country where we can speak freely about our social ills without fear of reprisal. That's inherently American!
Corgiguy:
The question to ask yourself is this: How many people in this country had to make a choice between having one severed finger reattached or the other? The answer, of course, is that this has never happened before and will never happen again. Yet this aberration is portrayed by Moore as the norm. Ditto for every other case of malfeasance portrayed in SiCKO.
Moore couldn't care less about Americans who have inadequate or no health insurance. His only concern is to bash the capitalist system which he exploits at the same time for his own enrichment. He exploits, also for his own gain, the people whom he features in his documentaries.
After the lies Moore spews about the Cuban health care system, how can anyone believe even one word of his critique of the American health care system?
People do have the right to be dissatisfied in this country about health care or anything else. But they don't have a reason to be dissatisfied, which is quite another thing. If the best is not good enough for Americans, then what is the alternative? Cuba?
Manuel
I'm not defending Mr Moore or Cuba's health care system. Mr Moore is a filmaker and he's has the right to make films and i have the right watch or not to watch his work and form my own opinion.
The America you are portraying is a bit different than what i see with my own eyes. I don't need Mr Moore to frame for me and i refuse to cloud myself in a veil of political ideology.
Take a visit to your local county hospital and you will see how affordable our healthcare is.
Several weeks ago here in los angeles a woman was left unattended in the emergency room of one of our county hospitals and died after 45 minutes laying in the floor from a perforated bowl. This is not an isolated case.
Here's a reference to the story
http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_6132668
You ask what the alternative. First we need to be less political or ideological and more issue oriented. A dose of rational thinking mixed with rightfulll indignation may due our society some good. We need some new voices that speak to the issues.
I'm not following your logic when you say we don't have reason to be dissatisfied.
Corgiguy:
Michael Moore is a propagandist and like all of that ilk has an agenda to push. He is no different from, but infinitely less talented than, a Leni Riefenstahl or a Sergie Eisenstein.
There will always be cases of negligence and abuse in health care here and anywhere. One importance difference between Cuba and the U.S. is that you cannot sue for malpractice in Cuba, nor will the state compensate you for it. And since no one is held to account there for wrongdoing, there is no practical difference between competance and incompetance; satisfactory care and substandard care; good results or bad results.
The Cuban system is a real nightmare, and yet that is the system which Moore proposes that this country implement. Can you at least see the sheer disgenuousness of such a proposition? If that is Michael Moore's conclusion, don't you feel uncomfortable embracing his premise?
The problem, of course, is that both you and Moore insist on making the exceptions the rule. Since you will always be able to find such exceptions because no system is perfect, you will always be dissatisfied with the results. This is what I mean when I say that not even the best health care system in the world will ever be good enough for Americans.
Manuel
One more time, i'm not here to defend Michael More or Cuba's socialist healthcare system. You keep linking me with him and his ideologies.
Regrading HealthCare here's the issues as i see it. Is healthcare a right or a privilige?. Do all Americans have right to affordable healthcare. Or is healthcare a service that's provided by healthcare providers and only accessible to those that can afford it. What's the role of goverment in all of this?
I think you would agree with me that healthcare in america is not affordable to all of it's citizens. 45,000,000 Americans are unisured
I think is in the best interest of our society to make healthcare affordable to all. I'm not saying it should be free but it should be affordable.
Here's some facts from the Census Bureau
45,000,000 The number of uninsured in America in 2003.
8.5 million The number of children in America who have no health care.
1 minute The amount of time it takes for nearly 3 people to lose their health insurance in the U.S.
(Source: U.S. Census Bureau)
How large is 45 million?
45 million uninsured Americans is more than...
All Americans age 65 and older (35.9 million)
All African Americans (37.1 million)
All Hispanic or Latino Americans (39.9 million)
45 million uninsured Americans is...
Nearly five times more than the number of Americans living with cancer (9.2 million in 2001)
2.5 times higher than the number of Americans with diabetes (18.2 million in 2002)
7 million more people than those living with HIV throughout the world (38 million)
There are...
Nearly 150 uninsured Americans for each physician in America
Nearly 7,500 uninsured Americans for each hospital in America
Over 84,000 uninsured Americans for each Member of Congress
45 million uninsured Americans is about the same number of Americans living in...
West coast states (45.2 million in California, Oregon and Washington)
Middle America (44.7 million in Alabama, Arkansas, Colorado, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Tennessee and Wyoming)
Northeastern states (42.0 million in Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island and Vermont)
Corgiguy:
Do you mean to suggest that the 45 million Americans who are uninsured — 15 percent of the U.S. population — receive no medical care when they are sick? The law requires that all uninsured persons, even illegal immigrants, be treated in hospitals and you will find that the emergency rooms are filled with mostly these people. There really is no such thing as an uninsured American when it comes to receiving medical care in this country.
You cannot begin to know how annoying and offensive it is to someone acquainted with the inhuman conditions in Cuban hospitals to see Michael Moore use Cuba's antiquated and dangerous health care system as some kind of paragon with which to berate the world's best and most comprehensive health care system.
Americans, of course, have an innate desire to see themselves as victims, and because nothing is ever good enough for them, they are never content to enjoy the best but are always demanding more. They are in their selfishness unqualled and in their discontent unequalled despite being also unequalled in their living standard.
Manuel
What can i say. I think we are talking about two different issues here. Google uninsured, healthcare, census bureau, visit your local inner city hospital and form your own opinion.
And that law that you are talking about, what good did it do to the poor lady that died in the emergency room of MartiLuther in LA.
Being critical of our social ills, understanding the issues, being informed is part of being a responsible citizen in our society what does that have to do with being selfish?
Manuel, i wish you health and hope you never have the misfortune to find yourself in the emergency room of your local county hospital expecting to recevie the best healthcare in the world.
Corgiguy:
Charity care in the U.S. is infinitely preferable to the best that money can buy in any other country.
I also wish you the best, and I am sure that even if you didn't have health insurance, you would still receive it in this country.
Corgiguy
Martin Luther Killer is what the people call that hospital here in LA, it has a really bad track record, it does not surprise me when I hear someone died there, like that poor woman, but that's only one hospital, you can't compare them all to that one, it really should be shut down.
America's provocateur-in-chief Michael Moore- "White people scare the crap out of me." hahaha
Vana:
You are right. That hospital no doubt also kills people with insurance. It's not the health care system which is at fault, but the government which is charged with regulating and certifying hospitals.
Also be weary of any hospital that's called "Martin Luther King." Such institutions are usually located in ghettos where crime and drugs are the chief "illnesses." Such places are unsafe and should be avoided if possible.
People who live in the ghetto should have the option of seeking care in hospitals that are not war zones. This is one change which I would approve, but which Michael Moore, of course, doesn't address.
Yes Manuel, it is in a very poor section of town, indeed a ghetto, I remember the term Martin Luther Killer, since it was built
Vana
I have lived in southern california since 1965. I can show other stories of hopsitals in LA that have issues. This hospital are not in the ghettos either. Kaiser Permanente on of the biggest HMO here in california was recently caught dumping patients in skid row
Here's a reference
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6497254
This is not an isolated instance my friends.
Corgiguy:
I know about the dumping of patients in skid row, it's always in the news here, It's not only Kaiser but many others that have been caught doing it, that I gotta give you.
corgiguy:
Discharging patients to skid row is not only inhuman but should be made illegal too (if it isn't already). That would solve the problem.
Of course, most of these individuals are mental patients who were thrown on the streets when the liberals' closed the mental hospitals because they believed that there was really no such thing as mental illness and that what was called that was just a different way of perceiving reality. This is what happens when the social engineers interfere with the practice of medicine.
Manuel
When you have people dying in emergency rooms unattended, people being dumped in skid row, 45,000,000 uninsured unable to afford the best health care in the world. That to me is a red flag of a broken social system.
Yes we can dismiss it as isolated to skid row, the ghetto, the other side of town, the less fortunate, blame the liberals, Nevertheless is happening in our America to our fellow citizens.
What do you think Marti would have said about this didn't he have a poem that said something like this
"Con los pobres de la tierra / quiero yo mi suerte echar:..."
Food for thought my friend!
corgiguy:
The reason you don't have universal health care in this country is Hillary Clinton, you know, the candidate you are going to vote for in the next elections.
The liberals' attempts to bring ideology to medicine are responsible for any flaws in the health care system in this country, which is strong enough, however, to resist their predations and remain the best and most inclusive in the world, all anecdotal evidence to the contrary not withstanding.
Manuel
I'm dissapointed in you, what makes you think i'm voting for Hillary, i hope you are not doing a ValHenry on me.
If it makes you feel safer i have not political affiliations.
As for your post i can't respond to it since i can't follow your reasoning.
corgiguy:
Someone who thinks about health care in this country in the negative way you do should consider voting for Hillary who wants to "fix" what isn't broken. Do so with a free conscience: any Republican candidate is more likely to lift the embargo and restore relations with Castro than is she. She is an ideologue and an opportunist but they are all in the pockets of big business and will do its bidding in respect to Cuba or anything else.
In fact, you should visit Babalú blog and read about Henry's experience with the health care system. It saved his life in a real touch and go situation. Of course, it's just anecdotal evidence but so is everything in Moore's film.
You are not required to follow my logic all the time. I frankly confess that some people's logic baffles me too. Nor are you expected always to agree with me. That's what makes this blog different from Babalú. As for you being disappointed in me, that's something I can't help.
You guys, no matter how bad the health care system is here, it's still worse in Cuba, fat ass Moore, went there to make this country look bad, and glorify the Cuban robolution, yes we live in a capitalist society, of course those with money will get better treatment, but we cannot deny that the poor here have Medi Cal, at least they can get treatment, and have access to medicine, better than in Cuba, where there is none.
Manuel
I'm not saying that the health care system is bad, my contention is that is not affordable to all. If you are fortunate and have health insurance you are fine if you are poor and unisured good luck. I backed up my assertions with samples and news references. Now in your eyes that makes me a liberal, so be it i've been called worst things.
I also asked in one of the posts. In a just society is healthcare a right or a service to be provided by corporate entities. This is more of philosophical question.
By the way if you want to frame me politically call me a liberterian in the tradition of Barry Goldwater that would make happy. Oops Hillary was BarryGoldwater girl back in the 60's
In another subject, i've noticed that your friend fantoma seems to speak in different voices, sometimes his english is broken, sometimes he speaks perfect english cuzz words and all i swore his last tirade sounded like henry. Just read his post and you'll see
corgiguy:
You are obviously a good-hearted person who wants everyone to have the same access to quality health care. The U.S. is at least 85 percent there, as you yourself admit. It should not be difficult to bring the other 15% to parity (although they are hardly without heath care now).
This puts you (whether you like it or not) firmly in the liberal camp. Libertarians would recoil in horror at the thought of the government engaging in such social engineering: less, not more government, is the libertarians' ideal. They don't want the government involved in health care and have even opposed such programs as Medicare and Medicaid.
Odd that you should mention Barry Goldwater because his opponent, Lyndon Baines Johnson, I consider to be the greatest U.S. president of my lifetime. The fact that we are all here today and have been spared a half century of tyranny at home is attributable directly to him. From other U.S. presidents we received and continue to receive nothing but lip service when it comes to Cuba. Johnson could not liberate Cuba because Kennedy had tied his hands in the Kennedy-Khruschev Pact. He did the next best thing and freed 2 million of us piecemeal.
It was Johnson who signed the original Cuban Adjustment Act (1966), the most immigrant-friendly legislation ever passed in the history of this country, the likes of which we shall never see again in these xenophobic times. (Indeed, The Cuban Adjustment Act was essentially gutted by Clinton and Bush when they implemented the "Dry Foot/Wet Foot" policy). The fact that you (and all of us) are here today and have had lives worth living is directly attributable to LBJ.
It was the Rev. Ralph Abernathy, I think, who said that Johnson was the greatest president for the poor and blacks. Well, for what it's worth, he was also the greatest president for Cuban exiles.
Johnson, moreover, understood the real nature of Communism, which his dilettante predecessor did not. If he had been president in 1961, or Nixon, for that matter, the freedom fighters would not have been betrayed at the Bay of Pigs.
In fact, I think I may write a post in honor of Johnson. His widow, Lady Bird Johnson — of Mexican-American ancestry, incidentally — is still alive and currently hospitalized. She was also this county's best first lady.
Manuel
I'm liberterian in the sense that i believe the smallest goverment is the best goverment.
I'm for self reliance personal reponsability, small taxes, get the goverment of our lifes, those were the values of barry-goldwater and original conservative movement.
In today's politics Barry would be called a liberal or progressive because of his views on social issues.
In my view the goverment role in our society is to make sure the infastructure is there so we can all pursuit our own individual american dream. I don't expect the goverment to do it for me.
Frankly i have low expectation of goverment since it doesn't seem to do things very efficiently all they seem to do is debate, make laws and then don't enfoce them.
When it comes to helthcare, i think is to our society best interest that it's affordable to all. I'm not saying that the goverment should be in the business of healthcare. But it should administer it. Healthcare should be viewed as a basic human right in our society.
Goverment role in my view is to be a fair broker make sure everybody has equal acccess a level playing field. An affordable health insurance program is a resonable expectation, i think most of mechanics are already in place.
Regarding Cuban policy. I start from the view that we should not be intervening in other countries, the next generation of cuban leaders need to decide what goverment is best for the island. we should be talking and building bridges instead of creating enemies. The embargo is ineffective, is only there to win the political vote south florida. A good diplomat know how to talk and be tough at the same time.
Regading LBJ, frankly i don't know much about him, to give you an opinion, i know him and goldwater were fierce political enemies. Have you seen the HBO documentary on goldwater.
Manuel bottom line i'm not an ideolgist, i'm liberal in some issues conservative on others and pragmatic on most. Just keep the goverment of my bedroom and out of my pocket
corgiguy:
I also pick and choose from both the conservative and liberal menu because aspects of both appeal to me.
I despise the Republican Party's nativism and propensity to scapegoat the very people whose slave labor makes possible the cheap vegetables on the tables of Americans and even the luxurious houses they inhabited, which would not be so luxurious if American workers were being paid $60.00+ per hour to build them.
By the same token, I despise the liberals' attempt to portray this country as one beset with poverty and want when it is, in fact, the most bountiful on earth and in the history of mankind.
Much as you may earnestly desire it, there will never be a level playing field. All men are created equally and endowed with the same rights but not with the same abilities, so there will always be disparities in society. Attempts to correct artificially these disparities have always made then worse (i.e. communism, fascism).
Freedom is the answer. The only answer. The State should never intervene in our lives except to preserve the freedom of the individual. This requires that, at times, it does invade the precincts of the bedroom and raid your pocketbook. For example, I am sure that you do not object to laws that prohibit the sexual exploitation of children in the bedroom or anywhere else. Nor would you deny your money to programs such as Medicare or Social Security, let alone any scheme for universal health care.
Manuel
Basically i want our goverment to get back to basics. Fix the roads, protect borders, level the playing field, settle disputes, introduce efficiencies, foster enterpreneurship.
I'm tired of the debating society, the do nothing congress. Theocrats like Bush and Gingrich scare the hell out of me.
I like leaders that are pragrmatic that issue oriented that are philosopher kings.
I don't want the goverment to define morality for us. Do you want the Bill Clintons or Mark Follies to tell you what's moral?
No I'm not opposed to laws that protect children, and not opposed to taxes as long as they are used for the greater good. If we are going to pass laws, let' enforce them. Immigration should be about orderly assimilation not about exploitation for the benefit of the elite.
Let's inject our politicains with heavy dose of COMMON SENSE AND REASON.
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